Timestamps:
You have to be a geek about sports media because it’s very niche. 5:45
Baseball’s stars that transcend their sport. 13:48
Is the NBA fan more prone to staying up late? 20:06
Is the volume game of baseball making regional sports networks way profitable? 25:17
Why regional sports networks need the inventory they need 29:02
How do you see baseball as a TV viewer? 34:29
Joey Votto is a unique player in that regard because he hasn't always been the same player. 38:49
The chemistry between Gayle King and Charles Barkley. 45:50
Transcript:
Intro 0:04
james brown 2:11
Ian Casselberry Welcome to the program.
Ian Casselberry 2:14
Hey, thanks so much for having me on. James. Great talking to you.
james brown 2:17
Great talking to you too. You're a freelance writer. Yes, sir. I've done that. It's a hard life. Are you bouncing multiple careers or multiple gigs on that work?
Ian Casselberry 2:30
Yeah, not as many gigs as I would like right now but I've found over you know, 1012 years of doing this actually I feel like I do better when I'm juggling more than one thing feels like it kind of keeps me fresh if I'm doing some different things. I mean, I've mostly been in sports media the past few years. But yeah, when in the past when I've covered other sports are here I live in Asheville, North Carolina. I covered the Asheville tourists for one season covering Major League Baseball here and there. I get I find it kind of keeps me fresh. I enjoy juggling the gigs but you're right it is. It can be a struggle and you always feel like you're chasing chasing that paycheck. But I guess you're always chasing that paycheck. Right?
james brown 3:23
Right. I feel like I'm chasing a paycheck. Absolutely. Yeah. But I have to wonder what's the attraction to sports media.
Ian Casselberry 3:35
You know, sports media is something that's a great question. It's always interested me even as a young person, I just for some reason, we had a I grew up in Metro Detroit in Ann Arbor and we had a sports media column there, you know, who was coming and going
was the mid 1990s. We got sports talk radio, in Detroit and it's always been something that's interested me you know, if you notice that suddenly someone's on a different network are covering a different sport. Or you I think you whether you pay attention to the announcers or not, I think you you tend to notice who you like and who you don't like, or who you prefer. As far as a career I just I happen to write for blog winds, baseball site, and they at the time, awful announcing was under that umbrella. And they were the big site, you know, the big cheese, big fish in that pond, and they asked me if I was interested in writing for them. And again, I've always had an interest in it. So when they asked if I was interested in doing some writing for them, yeah, I jumped out at the portunity And I kind of took off from there.
james brown 5:05
I, I loved I've loved awful announcing for a long time in that they, they they walked this line of cheeky and in seriously looked looking at sports media geekdom. Yes. And I do you do you consider yourself a sports media geek?
Ian Casselberry 5:28
I guess so. I think you'd have to have some Geekdom to to cover it. The way awful announcing does the way Barrett sports media does, you definitely have to have an interest in it. And I've always had an interest in local TV and radio. And I mean, of course, it's exploded with the the polarization of debate talk shows on ESPN during the day. Yeah, you do have to be a geek about it, I think because it is very niche, you know, it's not, it's not like following a sport where you're just, you know, you have your favorite players, your favorite teams, you have spectacular games, you have to kind of you have to kind of get in the weeds a little bit. But I think it's also some people whose cover sports media, I think, actually aren't geeky enough, really, in terms of you know, on your side, maybe you appreciate this. I mean, I think some people who cover sports media, whether full time or passing through, don't have enough of an idea of what's going on. On that side, you know, how a broadcast is produced? What goes into being an announcer, you know, what are you hearing in your ear? What are you getting from the truck? How do you follow certain moments? Or what is the technology involved in a broadcast? And I feel like if you're, if you're covering, it helps to know, and maybe some people, including myself, have a little bit more interest in those sorts of things. But I think it's definitely helpful, a little bit of geekiness I think it's helpful.
james brown 7:09
Some shots fired there.
Ian Casselberry 7:13
I guess it came off that way. I know, I mean, I'm guilty of it, too. You know, I've gotten emails from people on on the executive side, or the or the production side, saying, you know, well, you know, this was really the case, you know, and maybe you should have taken that into consideration that reminds me as a writer, or reporter that, you know, maybe you should make that extra phone call, or maybe you can you think you don't have time to check some things and maybe you should make that effort.
james brown 7:43
It seems that that's not done enough. I if I'm if I'm catching your drift.
Ian Casselberry 7:47
Sometimes there's just not time. I mean, it, you know, especially a sight like, like awful announcing, you know, you're cranking out stories. There's not always time to check things and in some cases is just you know, you're you're aggregating news or you're passing along opinion, but when the opportunity is there to look a little deeper. I think we all should.
james brown 8:12
Amen to that. I want to slightly veer toward baseball. You covered it. I take it you're a long time fan first, before you covered it.
Ian Casselberry 8:27
Yeah, yeah. I grew up a fan of the Detroit Tigers. fan of those 1980s Tigers teams. You know, they won the World Series in 84. Sparky Anderson, yes. Yes. In 1987. They made it into playoffs. Yeah, I've always had an interest in baseball. I don't know if maybe it was just the sport at the time that presented the best opportunity for writing. It wasn't necessarily I think that there were some events kind of working into place like when I really did start to get into sports writing part part time and then full time the Tigers were really good. So it was a good opportunity
and a blogger and then I went to SB Nation. And that turned into an opportunity at Yahoo. But all the time I think if I hadn't been so passionate about following the Tigers that I don't know if I would have been or follow through as much on baseball but I always feel have felt that most of the best sports writing has been in baseball. So even just a fan of sports writing of storytelling, you find that a lot more or you have in the past at least found that more in baseball
james brown 9:59
my Guess the depth and breadth of it just thinking about the length of games? Obviously, they're working on condensing them now, but games go on for a long time. There's a bit of, I guess, baseball writers at least they used to. And yeah, there's still some that do. They sort of look at sort of the poetry of the game. More than, say, a basketball writer.
Ian Casselberry 10:26
Yeah, I think certainly the length of the games, but the length of the season. And you know, there are a lot of quieter moments in the game that I think you're kind of wondering what's going on inside a hitter and batters head where as opposed to, I think maybe that happens in basketball, and football and hockey, too. But sometimes I think those sports are just more instinct driven, you know, like, you're not thinking as much about you just see see opportunity. And, you know, you, you go go toward the basket. And I think also just covering the sport day to day, I know, a lot of writers will say it's not as much the case now, as it used to be, especially post COVID. But I think baseball, because of the of the length of the day and the length of the season, there are often more opportunities to establish a bond with players, with managers with coaches. Again, I don't know if this happens as much anymore. But you know, you've heard stories in the past of, of managers kind of just hosting, you know, having everybody in his office and trading stories and, and Bs thing about life or just telling some stories. And and I don't, I don't think you get that same opportunity in other sports.
james brown 11:51
When I think about baseball, I think regional, and increasingly so what do you why do you think that is?
Ian Casselberry 12:04
I think, I think that goes toward the length of the season. You know, there were there are so many games, so many teams, so many different players. But when you follow a baseball team, when you're devoted to a baseball team, I mean, it's it's every night, it's your whole spring and summer and part of the fall, and it just becomes routine. And you become I think you become locked in and it's harder to follow maybe the entire sport. I mean, you do ideally, you see the the other stars for the other teams when they play your team. But I think I think baseball allows its fans to maybe maybe this is allowing is the wrong I think baseball does a bad job of marketing its stars. So I think that kind of puts it on the fan to find out what it is they like about the sport or about their team. And I think that is part of what what makes it regional. But we all have stories or memories of you know, like going camping or going to you know, like a summer cottage or out on the lake and you're on the radio or you're listening in the car. Baseball, I think maybe certainly not as much as it used to be used to be a very much a radio sport, too. And I think that does have something to do with forming that bond with your team and a regional interest.
james brown 13:48
You know, I want to step back to that statement you made about baseball marketing, its its stars because there's a moment that I've heard, talked about a lot over the last week or so. Shohei Otani and Mike Trout squaring off in a World Baseball Classic. And it was honestly it's the most I've heard people talk about an actual baseball game. Yeah. in quite some time. Maybe I'd say when Judge Aaron judge broke the record last year. Really. Outside of that, it's been quite some time and I do. My my mind tends to agree with you about baseball, not positioning its its stars as even truce. Stars that transcend their own sport. We know that someone like Otani does amazing things but It doesn't it feels like they're, they're in a similar problem with hockey. Where we know someone like Connor McDavid is amazing. But there's, there's not the depth and breadth of him. Like, there seems to be with a LeBron James or Kevin Durant even, or even a Joe burrow or Pat mahomes. And not that they're so deep in terms of, of their personal life being out there so much, but they're, if they feel larger.
Ian Casselberry 15:36
Yeah. Yeah, what would basketball I mean, I think basketball has always accentuated the players. Emphasize the stars. And I think social media has really amplified that, especially players you mentioned like Kevin Durant, LeBron James, they're on social media, they bond, they have a rapport with the fans good or bad. And I don't really feel like you see that as much in baseball, which is a little bit strange, because we're talking about how long the season is how many games there are. Maybe it's, it's, it's harder to quantify or show, you know, you can show a homerun you can show a great pitch. Maybe part of the problem is that in recent years, you know, with strikeouts up so much and the shift being prevalent. Baseball hasn't had as much opportunity for players to show their athleticism. And that's something I think in basketball and football. You know, if all else you can show a great dunk, you can show a block, you can show a steel, you can show a great run or a jump for a touchdown. And it's maybe a little bit more limited. In baseball. Certainly, again, you can show a home run, you can show an outstanding curveball, but it seems like there are fewer instances of seeing, say a great catch in centerfield or somebody going deep in the hole at shortstop to make a great throw. And I think those those are the plays that baseball needs to emphasize. They just they need to show you mentioned Mike Trout, and he's been the best player in baseball though, on a national basis. I'm not sure enough people think that or know that. And I don't know if it's because baseball can't show what makes Mike Trout so great. Like you know that he can do everything hit for power hit for average speed defense, throwing. Now baseball itself would say Well, Mike Trout isn't exactly helping us out, which is sort of an eye rolling statement yet. Maybe you can see where they're coming from too is that you know, you don't see Mike Trout on TV say like maybe Peyton Manning is a bad example, since he's not a but Well, you mentioned Patrick mahomes. Patrick mahomes is very much out there. He shows his personality he whether it's really what he's like or not, you know, you see him in those State Farm commercials and you feel like you know that guy. And you know, you don't see that as much in baseball. There are some guys who have that potential. Tim Anderson of the Chicago White Sox is somebody that comes to mind, but I just baseball, maybe it's because they've always depended on the fact that you know, we all played baseball growing up, or at least we used to. And they, they have felt they don't need to explain why somebody is great, you know, surely Otani you can at least you can say, well, he can hit and he can pitch. But I don't feel like they baseball, whether it's baseball itself or maybe the media has said, you know, we all think wouldn't it be great to have watch Babe Ruth play, pitching and hitting and we have it and I feel like the sport doesn't really push that enough.
james brown 19:20
Yeah, seems like their star making machine might be broken.
Ian Casselberry 19:25
And that might tie into the originality the regional interest you were talking about too. I don't think also I don't know if this isn't something we can get into. I don't necessarily think it helps baseball that some of his best players play on the West Coast. Oh, yeah. That now I know. That's East Coast bias and with MLB TV and it will be network you can see highlights and you can see those plays. But you know if the majority of the population the sports watching population is in the eastern and central time zones, Mike Trout Shohei Otani.
As they're playing when most of us are going to bed, for sure,
james brown 20:06
absolutely. Yeah, we can certainly get into it. I mean, I know that there's been conversations about that, even with basketball, right? What I remember when LeBron James went west, right? And there was just this dearth of star power in the East. And yeah, if we hadn't, I think there's been this consistent. I think it's one of those things that that it's it's weird because I league can't make that consideration, right. Because it's up to the player. It's up to the teams, correct?
Ian Casselberry 20:42
Yeah, I mean, you always hear conspiracy theories about, you know, pushing players to certain cities, right, big cities. But yeah, I mean, I guess that's the counter argument, you would say has it? Did it hurt the NBA when LeBron went to Los Angeles? Maybe not. But I mean, he certainly went to one of the sports biggest teams, and a big city. It's not like LeBron went to play for Sacramento or a team with a little bit less Glitz. i That's That's a good question. Is, is the NBA fan more prone to staying up late? Or, again, you know, it's easier to show bronze greatness in a highlight package on sports center. Maybe then it is Mike Trout or Shohei. Otani?
james brown 21:33
Yeah, precisely. That's why I don't I think it's, it's, it's unlikely to believe for to me at least, that NBA fan would be more likely to, you know, be okay with a 10pm start that a baseball fan? That seems a little like a you know, like, that doesn't make any sense. It there must be something else going up. I, I struggle with that. And I think that this this sort of ties in to both the what's going on with original sports networks. And, and sort of how baseball is strong is nationally projected. And broadcast. There's, it seems like the showcases for the sport, have sort of not vanished vanishes, a little bit stronger word, but it seems like they're secondary.
Ian Casselberry 22:37
I definitely agree. Baseball. Another big problem with baseball is that nationally, it just doesn't register. We've been talking about it being a regional sport. But look, I mean, it doesn't get the play on ESPN. That it used to whether it's the game broadcast itself or baseball tonight seems increasingly a buried late hours or it's more of a special rather than a daily show. You know, in the late 1980s, early 1990s, maybe you've up until the 2000s Baseball tonight was baseball tonight. Sure. watch that show every night or in the evening. And now I mean, you have ESPN, you have TBS, you have Fox but you know those Fox broadcasts are often on FS one. And I this will probably make me sound old. But I think some people still don't know where Fs one is on their on their cable system. I still have to think about it, which is embarrassing to admit. But I mean compare that to the NBA especially the NBA does such a good job of being a national sport, like TNT. They make their their Thursday broadcast their Tuesday broadcasts and events and a big part of that is having a studio show that is much must watch television and baseball doesn't really have that they have during the postseason, I think they have something close to that with the fox. And the TBS studio shows and you have some some great personalities, some fun moments that can go viral. But you don't have that during the regular season. Same with football and NFL live on ESPN. And, of course, the pregame shows on the network's baseball just doesn't have any of that. And I think yeah, there is a lack of a national showcase. Maybe that's because we're so used to watching football or maybe just you know, sitting watching a baseball game on a Saturday afternoon, as those of us who are older may have grown up on you know, Game of the Week, and so far, but that just doesn't have the appeal anymore. And national networks seem less interested in In showing baseball, you know, ESPN got rid of their midweek broadcast. Turner took over, they're gonna do Tuesday night games. But it still doesn't feel like the destination that the NBA does there.
james brown 25:17
So I wonder if this is so the volume game of baseball just to having so many games, it made their regional sports networks, way profitable or edited for those who don't know, these sports networks are? Well, one, the largest of them, the behemoth is something like Yes. Or in my neck of the woods. I live in Western New York, we have MSG, or at least the western New York version of MSG, there's a downstate version of MSG as well. And, and there's variations of these across the country. And they sort of as baseball sort of faded away from the national sense. They've picked up so much of the slack. And
Ian Casselberry 26:07
got it No, no, no go no, go finish your thought I'm sorry.
james brown 26:10
Well, they picked up so much of the slack and AR have been a destination for basically not just baseball but but for hockey and basketball as well. Only only basketball has that national profile hockey less so. So and they've been they've been destinations ratings wise. And it's been this sort of this natural sort of winner. And this and this old archaic system as it breaks down and with no national profile. And it seems like soon less of a regional profile, where the hell is everybody gonna go?
Ian Casselberry 27:05
But you're really gonna test fans loyalty and their appetite for you know, as we seem to be going more toward streaming and getting rid of cable, I mean, the people who really you if you really want to watch the Phillies, you know, you're well maybe they're not one of the regional sports networks that's in danger. They're not a Bally's team. And so let's let's look at the Braves for instance, like if if Bally's sports South valleys in general, but Valley sports south were to go bankrupt and somehow go off the air then Braves fans, like those who want to watch the team? They'll pick up a streaming package, you know, is that going to be now the price point? I think that that's a big problem for people if you can you justify $20 a month. I mean, Netflix doesn't cost that much Disney plus doesn't cost that much. Fair amount plus, you know, can you justify it and say, Well, okay, well, it's it's six months. We can do that. But still, it's not. It's not the same as just like, Oh, I'm flipping around, or Oh, the Braves are on tonight. I guess I'll watch that. Like, it's just on, you know, you don't have to make such a devoted decision to it. And this is something I wrote about a couple of weeks ago. Not just that if you go strictly to that model. They're the Braves for instance, they're not going to generate as much revenue if getting people to buy it on streaming versus if they get a cable network to to pay them, you know, millions of dollars. And I think, you know, that changed the sport. Because these regional sports networks, they needed the inventory, they needed the catalog. They wanted live sports, because that's you know, that's the programming you can't DVR right because the games happening then and they you know, you have a whole spring summer fall of programming of nighttime game broadcasts to fill and because of that sports networks would pay millions of dollars. And that kind of leveled the playing field in baseball because you mentioned the Yankees and yes network. The Yankees used to have a huge advantage because they would get millions of dollars 10s of millions of dollars maybe hundreds of millions of dollars from their network from yes network and they had so much more revenue from that compared to say the Detroit Tigers but then you know the Tigers, Fox Sports at the time. I'm now Bally's has come and given them a bunch of money and suddenly they can compete, they can pay they can put up the payroll and compete with the Yankees. I mean, you've seen teams the Texas Rangers are a team that comes to mind is that the Rangers weren't necessarily as competitive from a revenue standpoint in the 80s and 90s Maybe but they got a huge cable package or a huge amount of revenue from Fox Sports then valleys and suddenly they're able to to pay major contracts and get income
the top with a large market teams in baseball.
james brown 30:48
I'm thinking about the the wider effect of it. I'm not I didn't grow up a hardcore baseball fan. I remember I was into the Orioles for a while like they were our triple A affiliate. We're here in Rochester where I live.
Ian Casselberry 31:07
Oh, that's right. That's right.
james brown 31:10
And I used to love Brady Anderson. And then then my heart was broken as we learned and man was took more roids than any. But um, but for the most part, I haven't been a big fan. I'm a passive fan. And I think that's the biggest thing that from from your, your, your response to that I take away. I think there's a massive risk in in losing that passive fan, that fan that maybe would have listened to radio. But now they're not listening to radio now as not as not the same levels as we did before. And if it's not going to be on television, and widely available, how are they going to be exposed to this just social media, but even social media seems you're in your own little world, they're a world of your choosing.
Ian Casselberry 32:12
I think baseball is making it harder. We saw this last year, you know, baseball thought it was great, because they were getting new sources of revenue from Apple TV from Peacock, the streaming packages, and it's it's great from a revenue standpoint. And maybe it's kind of cool to have, you know, your team on on a showcase on a Friday night or a Sunday morning, Sunday afternoon. But if you don't have either of those platforms, and you tell people, you know that they've been used to just being able to turn on their local cable network or even their local TV network and seeing the game and now you're saying okay, well, you can't see the Yankees play the Red Sox tonight. It's on Apple TV. Well, how do I watch that? Well, you gotta sign up for Apple TV, you got to pay for Apple TV, you know, it's one one of 162 games, I'm not gonna do that. So I think baseball has made a money grab and kind of forgotten about the fan experience in that regard. You know, Apple TV, they try it, they made it free. You sign up for Apple TV, you didn't have to pay for an account that's changing this year, you have to pay to watch it. To go down another path. I think Apple TV made a mistake by trying to be maybe a little too innovative, if that's the right word. I think they tried too hard to be different with their baseball broadcast. And it turned off a lot of fans. I mean, I think ultimately fans say they want something new in sports broadcasting on the telecast, and they do like innovations, but ultimately, they just want the game they just want the details they they don't want the bells and whistles to overtake anything so you know Apple they had that probability thing in the corner but didn't really explain it. They would have people who didn't normally broadcast baseball like katie nolan thinking maybe that her social media following would get people to watch but people they just want they just wanted you to tell them they call a play by play balls and strikes. Why did this happen? You know, compare that to to your watch Fox and John Smoltz is is explaining how a pitcher sequences a hitter like okay, you throw in this pitch, which leads to this pitch or these this pitch, and it helps you learn the game. You're not necessarily getting that when you're trying to be clever, but you're not informing the viewer.
james brown 34:56
So we want iteration but not too much iterations.
Ian Casselberry 35:03
Yeah. I mean, how do you see it James as as a TV viewer? I mean, you want you want different angles Sure. replays and things like that. But really, you just want ultimately right? I mean, you want okay mahomes passes to Hardman sure that's a first down and then here's the replay and you see, okay, Hardman got open because he did a double move and Ryan you know mahomes looked off the safety right fourth and then boom, you're off to the next play you're not like is it? Does it make the broadcast better if you have a camera in Hartman's helmet? And you see maybe maybe that seems kind of cool, but does it? Does it? Add something, but does it inform you? And I think I think viewers like to be informed.
james brown 35:56
I tend to agree with you on that one. Viewers do like to be informed. I think I am a bit more for innovation than most viewers but not not to the Nickelodeon broadcast level. Or
Ian Casselberry 36:13
I'm laughing because I really enjoyed the Nickelodeon broadcast, but I mean, it was
james brown 36:17
fun. It was definitely fun. But like, it was not I didn't feel like I was watching football. I felt like I was watching a video game.
Ian Casselberry 36:27
Yeah, yeah. You know, this is actually we're talking about innovations in broadcast. This is actually something that baseball did more last season, but a little bit before that. And that's making the players up in the field that really added something to the broadcast. Oh, yeah. You know, it gave you or something that they, you know, you always wonder what are those guys same to each other at first base, or, you know, what are they thinking when they're out there in the outfield, and a ball hasn't been hit to them in three innings or something like that. So we got some insight, it allowed the players to show some personality. And so I think that was an innovation that, you know, of course, you have some grumps who don't like that, or think it takes away from the broadcast. But I that's an example of an innovation. That's not that intrusive, but it's different enough to give the viewer something they hadn't seen or heard before. And that, that maybe that's baseball's ticket into, you know, we don't see the baseball players personality as much as we do in basketball, and football. And if you get a glimpse of that, you know, Joey Votto suddenly is the most interesting man in the world. Sure, because we heard of Mike, at first base, the past couple season. That's a great thing for baseball. And that's an example of innovation that works, I think,
james brown 37:52
speaking of Joey Votto, it set aside but he's one of the best interviews I've ever heard. Have you heard him on Dan Patrick show?
Ian Casselberry 38:01
He's, uh, he is. I mean, this is kind of a cliche phrase, but he is an interesting cat, right? I mean, he, he doesn't just have the platitudes. He seems like he really thinks about these things. You know, I, you've probably experienced this too. Sometimes you interview athletes, and you think you come up with this great question. And you're like, Oh, I can't wait to ask this and get the answer. And then you ask it, and it just becomes apparent, they haven't put as much thought into this as you did with your question, because they're just great athletes. And they instinctively, you know, like, I just hit the ball, you know, or I'm just, I'm just trying to make the team I'm just trying, you know, whereas somebody like Joey Votto, they have put that much thought into it. They want to be interesting. They, they're not just a jock. And Joey Votto maybe is is a unique player in that regard. Because he's a, he hasn't always been the same player, you know, he's changed his swing over the years. So again, this goes back to the thought, you know, okay, how do I hit for more power? Or people who say, you know, I don't get enough run runs batted in. So how do I get more RBI in situations? How do I change my swing? To make more contact? And vatos gift is that he is able to articulate that and explain it to a journalist to a viewer. Whereas not just saying, Wow, yeah, that's, you know, that's something me and my coach are working on.
james brown 39:39
He's the number one prospect for me for a Barkley style role.
Ian Casselberry 39:46
Oh, yeah. Wow, I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, that is. That's something else baseball needs. You know, we talked about the studio show. Yeah, they need somebody like a joey Votto. Now, will he have the platform or the outlet? Um, maybe if ESPN or TBS gives them that I mean, I don't know, think MLB Network is not big enough, right? not big enough. It's still not on some platforms. But you're right. That's a great example If Joey Votto can be a Charles Barkley type personality for Major League Baseball that would be great for the sport.
james brown 40:23
I think that's that Barkley coming to broadcasting right at the end of the ride, his Jordans era ended. I believe he started on TNT in 99.
Ian Casselberry 40:38
Wow, isn't that Yeah, yeah.
james brown 40:41
And it was a boom for the game. And his both a can explain things well, when he tries. And what he's not trying. He's funny as hell. Yeah.
Ian Casselberry 40:56
He's not afraid to say something controversial, something that might get him in a little bit of trouble. Whether it's because that's just really what he thinks, or he's not afraid to go for the laugh. You know, like, talking about big women in San Antonio. Yeah. But then he says it, you see how Shaq reacts. And it's a ripple effect from there.
james brown 41:25
Yeah. From your perspective, what's your thought about Shaq as a broadcaster?
Ian Casselberry 41:33
Ah, he's not my favorite on the inside the NBA crew, but I think he certainly doesn't take himself too seriously. He is willing to poke fun at himself to make fun of himself. And he's been, especially in recent years, a little bit more critical of players. But I think he couldn't have Barclays role. He needs Barkley and Kenny Smith and Ernie Johnson to to play off of. So if you want to call that a weakness, I guess that's a weakness that he needs. He needs his teammates to set them up really? And good, good producers. But he's you certainly improved. I mean, I used to think he was the weakest part of that broadcast. Maybe I guess he in some ways, he still is. But he but he also does some must see, you know, like, is he gonna race Kenny to the board and trip over his microphone cord and fall off the platform? I mean, you tune in just for that. Right?
james brown 42:45
It is interesting to see him sort of as a as a side piece or, or I think you're absolutely right. He's not I could not see them building an entire broadcast team around him. I don't think he has that kind of depth. At least I haven't seen it yet.
Ian Casselberry 43:09
Even on his podcasts, right, like he needs. Who isn't Nichelle Turner who hosts his podcasts? I mean, he needs a more dynamic host who will banter with him? Or he has Ernie Johnson or Kenny Smith on there? Yeah, he's I don't, I don't think as Shaq podcasts where it's just checking a microphone like Draymond Green? I don't think that would be very good.
james brown 43:35
Well, he's another interesting character. What do you think of him? He,
Ian Casselberry 43:42
boy, he definitely wants to be media. He wants to be the next Charles Barkley. And he's, he's pretty good at it. I mean, it's funny, in some ways, how much he cares about his podcasts, like, especially during the playoffs? You can almost see his teammates or his coaches, you know, like, what are you doing? And I mean, I could also see from his standpoint, like, yeah, I got some thoughts on tonight's game, but you're gonna have to tune into my podcasts. I'm not just gonna give this to you in a quote. That is, if you want to call it he'll call it New Media. That is something that's definitely changed the dynamic between media and athlete, but I think yeah, Draymond has a bright future. I think TNT is extremely fortunate that if and when well, when Charles Barkley finally retires, that Draymond Green can step into can sit in that chair, and he'll never be another Charles Barkley. We're never going to have another Charles Barkley, but somebody who's pretty close who can, who can sit in that chair and be entertaining. Two, three times a week.
james brown 44:52
Charles has been threatening retirement for the last 20 years. I think he he's gonna die on that set. He
Ian Casselberry 45:01
likes it too much right now. There's the stories that he might do CNN. Oh, well, that's a week with Gayle King.
james brown 45:08
That seems like a terrible idea.
Ian Casselberry 45:13
It does. Yeah. Charles Barkley. I mean, yeah, I don't know. Is he? is he somebody you want to hear talk about everything. You know, he, it's interesting that he has opinions about politics and things outside of basketball. But you put him on a show where he's not going to talk about basketball. Is he? You know, is he going to show that he's out of his element in some ways or not as informed?
james brown 45:41
My gut reaction is that I would want to hear him talk about it, but not with not with Gayle King.
Ian Casselberry 45:50
Hmm. Yeah, yeah.
james brown 45:54
I don't know their chemistry. Maybe they have amazing crackling chemistry. And we just don't know. But I don't mind. I would doubt it.
Ian Casselberry 46:03
That's a good question. Because Gayle King tends to be kind of a dominant. I'm the boss here. Kind of personality. That doesn't have to be you just look at her career. Like if you haven't played ball, so to speak with Gayle King, you know, like Norah O'Donnell or whoever that sure you're off, you're off the set, you're off the show. So, yeah, you must be right. They must have some chemistry or whether whether or not they'vein regular life that people know Chris Licht, and the producers at CNN think this is something that could work. But yeah, just like, you know, just saying, well, she's a great personality, and he's very outspoken. And so let's put them on a show together. That mean, that's not always the formula for success.
james brown 46:59
And on the CNN side, it seems like a strange experiment. I, if I'm thinking with cable news, I understand they're under pressure, CN NS ratings have been in the tank. They're falling to a distant third at this point. But I don't think they're going to be turned around by a one day a week show.
Ian Casselberry 47:20
No, no, I mean, you have, you're setting it up. So you have to have one, you not only have to have one good show that people are going to tune into but now you're saying okay, we have to come up with four. Right? Because we need like, Okay, we have something on Tuesday. We have Gail and chuck on Wednesday. Now we need something on Thursday. That's really tough to do. Yeah.
james brown 47:44
And it's not the cable news way, typically.
Ian Casselberry 47:50
Isn't that why they got rid of Larry King? Because I mean, yeah, he did good interviews. But then what about? Okay, we're bombing, you know, we just invaded Iraq. And Larry King shouldn't be anchoring that coverage. I mean, that's gotta happen on CNN. Right.
james brown 48:06
Yeah, but I think you roll with it. Like, I think, from what I remember, they, they usually included him in the coverage. They wouldn't, they wouldn't like, make them central to it. They, they they did have him do an interview, you know, or talk to correspondents for that hour, you know, if it was a big event. But not, but not make it like a typical Larry King, you know, celebrity interview, you know,
Ian Casselberry 48:39
maybe that's one reason why Gail and Charles Barkley would be a good fit, because you can see Gayle King doing that, right? You could kind of anchor Yeah, or but you know, like if there's a school shooting. I don't know how much you want to hear from Charles Barkley.
james brown 48:53
Yeah, yeah, that would be a strange situation to put him then. He's had some good moments when dealing with some heavy issues. But
Ian Casselberry 49:02
yeah, that's true. That's true.
james brown 49:03
What do you want to do that regularly? i That seems strange that it seems like why would you want to? You're already signed a massive contract with TNT. To not do that. Why add that to your plate? It seems. A bit
Ian Casselberry 49:21
is it just too good opportunity to say no to is that what it is? I mean, if your CNN offered me a show, I'm not gonna say no. I think I can do it. So I'm gonna do it.
james brown 49:35
You want me to?
Ian Casselberry 49:38
Yeah. Anyone listening to this? If
james brown 49:43
so, any, any famous last words?
Ian Casselberry 49:47
Oh, well, first of all, thanks so much for having me on. It's been great talking to you. I you know, we've been talking about the struggle of baseball and waning fandom Um, and I struggle with that myself. I don't write as much about baseball as I used to I don't watch as much baseball as I used to. Part of that is because the Tigers are my team and they've been terrible in recent seasons. Maybe part of it is just growing, getting old and you know, I gotta devote how much time each night to baseball, but I still love the sport. I still I loved seeing the attention that baseball got during the World Baseball Classic. I think it does show that when there is a big event, and maybe some of that is USA, USA. You know, we're always gonna root for our country. But when there are big moments and spectacular players to be watched in baseball, it's still a riveting sport.
james brown 50:52
Well, Ian Casselberry, thank you for joining me,
Ian Casselberry 50:55
James. Thanks so much.
Share this post